Starting Again

This should be national anthem of the Manosphere. It’s Barry Manilow, who — HEY DON’T SCROLL PAST! — who made a fortune knocking off Rachmaninoff to sappy lyrics and do-gooder memes, but the songs, O MAN the songs, and they get better (if tiresome still) listening as a no-kidding grown-up.  From his album Even Now, which I played to death as a kid, this is Starting Again.

(Link removed — please search YT for “Barry Manilow Starting Again”)

So why the “manosphere”?  Well, there’s a bunch of men who are (to put it in a particular vernacular) exploring social issues and individual development of men in this society as-is, with some comparison to how it used to be, and importantly, in comparison also to male nature.  Men are not women who don;t know how to share their feelings — Men are men and that’s the way men are — it is right and good to shut up and carry on.  Obviously I wish to remain in good scientific territory, so I hasten to point out the whole overlapping bell curve system of interlocking caveats.  So without any more mealy-mouthism, I’ll just say that this song reflects to the younger MGTOW crowd that man’s discoveries about woman are not recent — it is man’s discoveries about man (as opposed to woman) which are the “forgotten thing” so seductive as a story hook.

In the song, the woman’s betrayal (let us take it as that) is an issue between two people, yet it also serves as a data point in a larger narrative about female hypergamy and male beta-orbiting.  I won’t hold the nature of males or females against either group.  Clarity is the missing element, we used to have it, and it is being rediscovered in fits and starts.

It helps when preparing ground for a new idea to point out that it isn’t even new.  In the case of socialist utopia, it helps expose the idea as futile, childish, and fatal.  In the case of men and women not being the same, it helps expose the idea as a time-tested lost understanding.

Hit those high notes, you commie fruitcake!

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14 Comments

  1. Gavin Longmuir

    I will see your Barry Manilow and raise you Wild Child — arguably presenting the female side of the same issue:

    ” You did not know about these expectations
    You could not possibly give what I want from you.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfxmogJxdUs

    There are hints that with the success of the War Against Men, these days bright young women are having to marry (or at least date) down. Those young women with secure government or corporate jobs have to support a bad boy who stays home sitting on the couch drinking beer and playing video games. That was probably not what the original feminists had in mind, but winning a war has consequences — not all of them good.

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  2. Popular topic of deabte and of getting set straight in the manosphere. These young women do not at all have to “date down” or entertain bad boys. These are cop-outs, although the date-down one has a bit more going for it.
    What they need to do is grow the Hell up and admit to themselves that they do not rate the top ten percent of men. They always had the opportunity to “date across”, but female hypergamy (which is a natural, largely blameless urge, although frequently resulting in wholly culpable bad decisions) in combination with feminism means that they accumulated a flock of beta males to string along while monkey-branching (er, brachiating) to higher rungs, all the while with emotional and financial safety nets. They spend their valuable youth chasing alphas who use them, feeing that they are getting ahead of the game.
    A man is graded on the woman he can *get*, whereas a woman is graded on the man she can *keep*. Different rules, different scores. Women complain that “all the good men are taken”, when in fact, they rejected all the good men for a decade and those men moved on. Now the bitter “danger zone” women present at best the possibility of a “geriatric pregnancy” (35+) to start things off. They waste their valuable years on school and casual sex, destroying their ability to pair bond, ignoring the men with whom they could have built a life, and then the crazy cat ladies with a body count of Westmorelandian proportion comlain because their degree hasn’t led to a happy domestic life.
    Women control men’s access to sex — men control women’s access to marriage.
    A side issue, perhaps semantic, about “dating down” is that this hardly seemed like a problem when it was men with careers scooping up women who serve coffee. Welcome to equality.

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  3. Never heard of Wild Child — not about to start now. Heaven knows, I need not even click a link for the female perspective on anything. We’re soaking in it.
    On the other hand, if you say the song is good, or musically compelling, I could check it out. Just explaining why I won’t have a response to the song you linked. I haven’t listened.

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  4. Gavin Longmuir

    BDB: “On the other hand, if you say the song is good, or musically compelling, I could check it out.”

    I would not intentionally waste your time with a link I thought was worthless. I recently came across that song by happenstance and thought the music was good & the performance was excellent — although of course tastes differ. That it seemed to present the female side of the Barry Manilow male/female relationship was serendipitous.

    As a side note, my horizons have been broadened by various kinds of links suggested by other people. As always, the success rate is far below 100%, but there have been a few treasures within the pedestrian.

    My apologies for this diversion from the male/female focus of your post.

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  5. Gavin Longmuir

    “Women control men’s access to sex — men control women’s access to marriage.”

    Perhaps that is not an appropriate axiom for the manosphere to adopt? My views don’t count, because I find myself in the same position as the old Greek philosopher (possibly Socrates?) who was asked how he felt about being too old for sex. He responded, “I am glad to be free of that hard taskmaster”.

    It certainly is a hard taskmaster for a young male, with all those hormones raging through his system. In the old days, the scions of the European Upper Classes dealt with this by the simple device of prostitution, separating sex from relationships. There did not seem to be any lack of women ready to take the money, so presumably this worked for both parties.

    As for the relationship side of things, young men today should be advised that Russia, China, and several other eastern countries have a copious supply of intelligent, sincere, beautiful young women. There is no need to waste time & tears on Western young women who have been indoctrinated to carry huge chips on their shoulders.

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  6. Both songs were substandard IMO. The Manilow song was better, more creative somewhat interesting but ultimately bland and schlocky . It’s also difficult for me to listen to a gay man pretend to be straight (is he actually talking about a guy?) It’s like at the Broadway musical when the male dancers are exhibiting flaming gay vibes whilst dancing with hot women. Hard to process. If I were the director I’d say to them, “I know you just got here from Iowa or Nebraska and are thrilled to be out and gay in New York City, but you’re play a straight guy in the army who is on shore leave, so try to keep the flamboyance to a minimum, thank you”. Well, I guess Barry never went full Liberace to his credit.

    The Wild Child video was horrid for me. A pedestrian rock shuffle that’s been heard a million times, a drummer overplaying cymbals, a cellist who can’t be heard (or it’s just that there’s nothing interesting in the progression to riff on?) and the vocalist with nothing exceptional about her voice pantomiming victimhood as she sings. Just sing the song, girl, let the audience feel the feelings. Taylor Swift dominates this genre anyway…

    Yeah, I’m done with female angst. It’s everywhere and it’s largely of their own making.
    Overall, disappointed. Maybe we are not living in quite the same musical realms.

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  7. So…. having regained internet access, I listened to the song.

    “I would not intentionally waste your time with a link I thought was worthless. I recently came across that song by happenstance and thought the music was good & the performance was excellent — although of course tastes differ. That it seemed to present the female side of the Barry Manilow male/female relationship was serendipitous.

    As a side note, my horizons have been broadened by various kinds of links suggested by other people. As always, the success rate is far below 100%, but there have been a few treasures within the pedestrian.

    My apologies for this diversion from the male/female focus of your post.”

    I didn’t find the music appealing. The music and the lyrics (content and delivery) seemed tedious not only to me, but to the group as well. That’s just my impression of course.

    Meaning: Hard to discern from her faux-distressed mumbling warbles, but I gathered that even she is getting tired of her own crap.
    This is a portrait (just the song, I don’t know the artist) of a young woman realizing that she approaches relationships like a three-year old. To a child, it may sound grown-up to make a list of demands and say take it or leave it and then agonize over the outcome, but it’s hardly productive, unless the desired result is a “partner” conditioned to put up with her crap. And men are walking away from that nonsense.
    This is an emotional portrayal, not an exhaustive article, so of course we don’t know much about the relationship. Yet as a portrayal of an emotional moment, the only thing this parallels with Manilow is that they both have realized that the woman has unrealistic expectations. That’s progress, I guess.

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  8. @GL:
    ” >“Women control men’s access to sex — men control women’s access to marriage.”
    Perhaps that is not an appropriate axiom for the manosphere to adopt?”

    How so? I liked the rest of your comment, but it didn’t really come back to this.

    I don’t know if I would call it an axiom (but maybe) — I would definitely call it a chunk of preserved wisdom.

    There is an aphorism that “women use sex to get love; men use love to get sex”, which I think is true as far as it goes. I would expand it to replace “love” with “love and resources” throughout. That’s not a criticism, just an acknowledgement of an obvious fact. Denial of facts is both harmful and the Authorized Truth these days.

    Now women pursue resources directly, fine, and they find that it hampers their ability to find love. Shhhhhhhhhocking.

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  9. Man — somebody really should do something about this crappy comment system.

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  10. @Franco “Yeah, I’m done with female angst. It’s everywhere and it’s largely of their own making.”

    Zackly.

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  11. Gavin Longmuir

    Franco: “Taylor Swift dominates this genre anyway…”

    Man! You really know how to stick the knife in! 🙂

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  12. Gavin Longmuir

    BDB: “Women control men’s access to sex — men control women’s access to marriage.”

    We are obviously on different pages musically , BDB (which is OK). Maybe we are on different pages on this topic also — or perhaps I failed to communicate.

    Take a book like The World of Yesterday: Memoirs of a European by Stefan Zweig, describing his life in Austria and elsewhere in Europe between the 1890s and the start of World War II. He hints at a world in which the expectation among well-bred young men was that they would separate sex from love, seeking physical relief from prostitutes and companionship from women of their own class. Obviously a very different world from today, but presumably this had been a long-established way of life. In the world Zweig describes, men used their resources to control their access to sex.

    Looking at this purely from an academic perspective, perhaps the problem is that (some) men today are looking for a pickup truck with the performance of a sportscar. It might be more practical for a young man to get himself a sportscar and rent a pickup truck when he needs to move apartments.

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  13. @GL, I didn’t think you had “failed” to communicate so much as perhaps left a thread dangling. We may be quibbling over terminology:
    “In the world Zweig describes, men used their resources to control their access to sex.”
    This sounds like the world today, and the same as it ever has been.

    This is not to say anything untoward about women. They have their controlling drives, as do men, and evolution has prepared us all to approach the unforgiving environment we inhabit with strategies tuned to our likely strengths and weaknesses. Without belaboring the obvious, women seek men with resources because those without this drive were replaced by those who did, both in the short term, and in the evolutionary scale (which is not so long as we have long thought).

    Men solve their quality problem through sheer numbers. Women, through upgrades. Women are finding that the men’s strategy is not actually well-suited to them.

    In general.

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  14. Even in prostitution, the sexual marketplace reigns supreme — just more formally. An awful, smelly, or over-aged man may find that the price is higher, and for more attractive females they can charge more. At mismatched extremes, no mutually satisfactory arrangement might be found at any price.

    The difference (solely in market terms, I am not speaking of morality and such) between sexual market function in prostitution and relationships is one of degree. Same curve, different offset.

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